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Post by barrett on Jul 1, 2015 14:53:06 GMT -5
So starting now Marty and I are gonna try and make our random musings on Zott more public. Please everyone feel free to jump in and make this a group discussion <3
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Marty
Project Director
Posts: 67
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Post by Marty on Jul 1, 2015 14:56:33 GMT -5
I realized that we'll get so caught up in the momentum of what we're talking about and then I go "crap gotta write some of that down" and I scroll scroll scroll up in the facebook discussion and THATS NO FUN
plus everyone else is missin out
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Post by barrett on Jul 1, 2015 14:57:44 GMT -5
On that note, aren't Henry's concept drawings amazing! We've been gushing about those. I'm excited to see everyone else's concept art as well!
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Marty
Project Director
Posts: 67
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Post by Marty on Jul 1, 2015 14:59:53 GMT -5
Here buncha buncha thoughts. (I promise my forum posts wont be this huge normally for a thread like this hehhhhh) This is the first sketch Henry gave me. I literally said "hey henry, I have an assignment for you.. I want you to draw ONE of the main characters of Zott in your style and see how it looks" and he handed me this drawing with all of them. I was a little fangirl crying tears of joy at the sight of this. Gah! Just look at it! Zott's exploded gauntlet??? that's the cover an issue right there! Grace's innocent baby-face (that I now am totally in support of for all her future designs)? Klaus bein all broody and UGH SO COOOL This one came after we had a talk about some more stuff of the first book. I said I really wanted Zott to have a bicycle and was considering writing it into the earlier episodes. I love the take on it (and the clashing of personalities of zott/grace on it). Also a little side note Eric is literally exactly how I saw him in my head... like, spot on. That being said, Garth is a bit darker than I originally imagined but... we're still working on that one! this drawing was hugely inspiring for me... really forced me to realize that the core of Zott HAS to be about this relationship (Zott and Klaus). I felt that in the current draft of the story this tension simply is not strong enough so I had to have a meeting with Barrett to come up with some solutions about how that can be stronger. Also, again, I just love how much character is thrown into the little details (though I imagine the final version will be a little lighter on the swearing...haha..) Henry went to TOWN with this one oh my god. Completely invented this whole way the weapon works (and how he trains with it). Busuraca is the "big heavy hardhitting" character of the Zott universe who can shapeshift into a bear. I knew Henry would like it when I pitched it that way.. Straight up cover of an issue material right here. Very powerful imagery. Hrok-Thar and prison Grace. Definitely looking to tweak Hrok-Thar's design a bit but I'm REALLY loving where its starting out. I really love the contrast of beauty vs. evil in this picture. Liriope is designed to be one of Anne's bullies in school who is very vain and self-conscious. While the costume is very minimal (definitely hoping we can get some of Madi's expertise to help with that) I like the general foundation of her face, hair, body, etc. Zephyr: before I told Henry about who I wanted him to be inspired by, and after... for those who don't know who leffen is, he's a very arrogant smash pro that a lot of people despise for how often he trashtalks n all that. I wanted Henry to imagine this person when designing Zephyr, and I like where it's going so far. A few notes: the gunners are a main design aspect of him, so seeing him without them would be a bit more rare. Henry thinks Zephyr, while ultimately kinda detestable, should be unarguably very cool: a fact that I very much agree with... this can be seen more in the second design. That being said, I think I like design 1's hair more.
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Post by barrett on Jul 1, 2015 17:10:16 GMT -5
yo Marty I just had a thought on something. How does magic work in this universe. I don't mean how do they use it, cause obviously they use it to shoot fireballs and control elements. How does it work though. Does it come through an inner force, do they bend "magic" inherent in the universe to fuel they're spells. Do they need magical focuses to channel magic for powerful spells or normal spells or ever. Is it like Eragon where they use their own life force thus need to be careful how much they use it or like Harry Potter where there is really no limit to how much magic the can be used. Do they need words? hand motions? wands? staffs? love? emotions? ingredients? spell books? or just their minds? Is it something you're born with or can anyone be a magic user (or some combination). I'm assuming you've thought about this a little bit but I wanted to know how in depth you've gone with it (or how in depth you plan on going). Right now it seems like the spells are mainly elemental, is that character choice or a result of the mechanics of magic in the universe?
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Marty
Project Director
Posts: 67
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Post by Marty on Jul 1, 2015 17:19:52 GMT -5
I'm glad you are thinking about this cuz really early on I was asking myself these questions but the thing is I never figured out answers to them. I pretty much just decided that I want magic to exist, and how it does I'll eventually figure out. That being said if you have any ideas I am more than open to what you might have in mind.
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Post by barrett on Jul 1, 2015 17:31:21 GMT -5
Well to me magic is always more enjoyable in a work when it, despite being magic, has clear rules and limitations. One of my favorites is the way wizards work in the Bartimaeus Trilogy. In that they cannot cast spells all they can do is summon Demons to do their bidding (sometimes using demons to seem like they're casting spells but they can't actually). What make it so great is that it's super dangerous. The more powerful demon you summon the more powerful you are but the more likely you are to mess it up and get killed by the demon. On a similar not i think the mechanics of magic in Eragon are pretty damn elegant. Practical, logical and perfect for creating difficult situations for the main protagonists, they're limited only by their own weakness or their willingness to take life from others. It doesn't need to be complicated either, Saga has a wonderful scene where in order to cast a spell a character needs another to give them a "secret that's never been told" to fuel a spell. Kinda out there but the spells of the universe are more interesting in that series cause of things like that.
I don't think any of these systems are right for Zott but I think that some kind of cost/benefit system with magic tends to make it more interesting. I don't know what it should be yet but I'm going to think about it.
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Marty
Project Director
Posts: 67
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Post by Marty on Jul 1, 2015 17:55:47 GMT -5
I agree, I'm going to do some thinking about that cuz it could really shape the way the school works and give an opportunity to develop Anne's character in an interesting way
Another thing in thinking about: zotts funky lightning shaped sword, how does that fit in the mix? When does he get it and why, etc
Edit: also HOLY NUTS MADI DREW SPARKS
EDIT 2:
Okay I think I've figured out how magic works (or at least provided enough of a starting point).
In the Zott universe, Magic is linked to emotions: specifically, learning to understand emotions. There are nearly limitless kinds of magic, and they each operate like an amplification of one specific emotion. "training" your magic, and becoming more powerful with it, comes as a result of understanding that emotion, how it affects you, and learning to control it. You have to learn to embrace the "good" of negative emotions, and the "bad" of positive emotions to not fully succumb to their power. Examples:
-Anne's fire magic is an amplification of her ANGER. Until she can find solace in her anger, she will always be somewhat destructive and unpredictable in her ways, just like her magic. Her main arc is learning to control her temper, not by smothering her fire, but by learning to control it. -Liriope's mirror/reflection magic stems from her understanding of her image. She is a very narcissistic person who is obsessed with how she looks, and suffers from low self-esteem of that as a result. Her arc is about learning how to accept herself, and love herself for who she is without needing the approval of people around her. -Zephyr's wind magic is something I'm still working on... however I imagine it comes from the "flight" part of "fight or flight". Since all he wants to do is fight, he struggles with truly mastering his craft (although he is pretty damn good at it) since it's not in his nature to ever back down from a fight, no matter how unwinnable it may seem. His arc wouldn't be as drastic as Liriope or Anne's, but I want him to essentially learn that there are times to back down, and it's not "giving up", it's learning to pick your battles, or something.
Other magic (that I haven't used for any character yet) would probably be like water magic = calmness/serenity darkness = hatred lightning = ecstasy/happiness telekinesis = freedom??? or something (this could be how Vera works.... maybe thats why she has to trap herself away cuz otherwise she's too powerful for her own good???)
the gears are turnin folks
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Post by barrett on Jul 2, 2015 10:57:31 GMT -5
I think this is a good starting point but I'm still left with questions. Are these magic users able to cast spells of any kind? What I mean is do they have an ability to do magic other than their element. For example can Anne ONLY use fire magic or can she use charms/illusions/etc? Unlock doors or fix things? If so that's fine just want clarity on that. But also I think that the whole "most powerful in control thing" is done to death. What if Anne is at her most powerful, by far, when she gives into her fury. What if Zephyr is a cocky asshole because being that way brings him to his greatest external power but at the cost of real happiness/human connection, what if water isn't calmness but despair and the most powerful water mage could defeat anyone but has sunk too deep into depression for it to not matter. Oh and in that system fear would be interesting too cause again the most powerful would be the most cowardly.
Also this idea doesn't have to only be dark! Things like joy and empathy could be power emotions too. I do get however that this is a fundamentally darker take on the idea but I really prefer powers with cost over powers easily given.
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Marty
Project Director
Posts: 67
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Post by Marty on Jul 2, 2015 11:08:54 GMT -5
I imagine the magic you're capable of using is limited only to that type (i.e. fire only, no door unlocking n stuff) but that might change since I see Anne being able to levitate n stuff (but that could also be done with fire so idk)
Water = despair is better. I like that.
So anyway to answer the main question, I think it depends on the definition of "control". understanding your emotions and being aware of it allows you to TECHNICALLY be more powerful, since its more stable. On that note, like you said: with like fire magic, ultimately she will be stronger once she's in a blind rage. But it's about learning to get to that point and embracing the power of it and seeing the good of it that gives you the "control" of it. I want to play to the ideology of "you can't control your emotions, but you can control how you react to them". Also, in a way, these magical powers can be super terrible, right? cuz even if it WAS like "once you 'control your anger' your power is stronger" you're still BURNINATIN SHIT. So I want the mechanics to reflect a dialogue of what "control" really means.. does that mean being able to 'bottle' your anger cuz you're "in control" or does that mean letting your anger fly but only when you know you need it?
I'm not sure if I'm being super clear, but I think what I have in mind incorporates what you're saying. The magic is about awareness, and that awareness can be shown in different ways to accomplish things differently?
I'm not sure if that changes how you read what I was saying, or if you still feel the same way or not. I always imagined Anne being stronger when she was angry, and I want her arc to be about using that anger to make her a better person: which is different from "well, I'm going to just... STOP BEING ANGRY"
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Post by barrett on Jul 2, 2015 11:19:35 GMT -5
Okay I think we're basically on the same page. I like adding a downside to magic and I agree there is a healthy way to acknowledge the emotions. I think one of Anne's struggles early on could be that she's weakened because she is trying to be less angry, but instead she's really just bottling up her real feelings and when she finally cuts lose more she's both happier and more powerful.
Also now am determined to think of a character whose magic is fueled through fear cause I feel like that'd be a great character.
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Marty
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Posts: 67
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Post by Marty on Jul 2, 2015 11:32:05 GMT -5
oooooooooh yes I like that take on Anne.
and awesome! Cuz I really like this idea... it helps to cement the functionality of the school, how it approaches teaching students, why some characters are the way they are, etc etc. There are different aspects of "control" and learning when you need what from it is the key to understanding your magic.
So here's the story I had that spawned from that.
Lord Zon is a human who was cursed with hatred magic. I imagine hatred magic working in many different ways, but I'm not exactly sure how it looks/works yet (obvious it would be scary and lethal and blah de blah) On top of that, he is also a shifter: he can transform into a shadow bug MANTIS (cuz mantises are "nature's mech warriors" and spiders are cliche as fuck). However, here's the catch: for shifters who can change into shadow bugs, they can only shift for a little while once they have killed someone. Uh oh. And he has hatred powers.
So basically Lord Zon was doomed from the start, and it was never entirely his fault (however, like Syndrome in the Incredibles or Scar in Lion King, he does plenty to prove that it becomes his responsibility and his fault). Whenever he transforms into his bug form he gets a crazy rush of power and pleasure... and what not. So he begins craving ways to unlock that power, and his hatred of people around him becomes self-fulfilling, snowballing effect type thing where he hates people, they hate him back, exponentiates, etc etc. The ONLY person who took pity on him was a girl: and for a while (Lord Zon being young-ish at this point) that was all he needed to suppress his horrible powers. However, his lust grew too strong and after he married her, he killed her to experience his bug form. However, it wasn't before she bore their child: Titan, a shadow bug half-shifter who went into hiding to escape persecution after her father was defeated in his war against Victor Godfried. After the war, Titan came to Victor, and before he was given a chance to kill her, she plagued his mind with an idea: an opportunity to experience more power.... (or something like that. yeaaa) Maybe Victor is convinced by her to eradicate all shifters, so that no more can be born, or something. idk. Would also motivate knights to be chasing so much after Klaus, especially if Titan is leading them.
Here's another idea:
Grace has hatred magic.
It would explain how she's such a crazy fighter when she goes into her "berserk" mode.. and why she is so fearful of everything. However, unlike Lord Zon, she doesn't let this power consume her: and in fact learns to COMPLETELY suppress it eventually to the point where she never uses it. She never learns to "find the good in it" or whatever, she sees that it's only destructive, and she learns to hone and trust her skills outside her magical abilities eventually.
(also, her having hatred magic could help to explain why her parents kept her so shut off from the world, cuz they were scared of her and totally handled it wrong)
EDIT: ALSO ALSO if she uses magic in that form, that would solve my problem of looking for a way to visually represent when she changes outside of creative lighting techniques n all that! (not that I wouldnt want to use that, but I think having her actually radiate shadow magic or her eyes glowing or something...less cliche... would be sweeeet)
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Post by barrett on Jul 2, 2015 11:43:05 GMT -5
Yeah I like the direction this is going. Grace having magic she can't use is interesting and I like giving Zon a reason to be evil beyond he feels like it. This whole thing is going an interesting direction. We could totally delve thematically into choice vs. fate if we so chose. I.E. Zott's choice to be a warier vs how Zon had evil thrust upon him and how Klaus/Grace didn't choose the terrible things to happen to them but are taking what fate has given them and trying to be good despite it. Don't have to go that route but it's an option.
Okay so magic having these mechanics has given me an idea. So they don't have a name yet and they can really be either male or female. So their deal is that their power comes from pain. The more they hurt the more powerful they are. So they'd be completely psycho, injuring themselves to stay strong, laughing off wounds because the more they are injured in battle the more powerful their spells are. I see them being total chaotic evil, no sides no mercy just pure Id. But because of that they could both fight Zott and friends and possibly team up with them at some point because they care little who their fighting for. Still a little half formed but I think they could be an interesting character.
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Marty
Project Director
Posts: 67
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Post by Marty on Jul 2, 2015 11:44:24 GMT -5
VERA!!!!!! HOLY BALLS
YOU JUST GAVE VERA HER SOURCE OF POWER RARRHGHRHH OF COURSE!!
(also check out Painwheel from Skullgirls cuz it sorta reminds me of that)
so quick, on the subject of Vera and her magic (cuz that pain thing fits TOO perfectly for what I want her role to be) I imagine now that she's locked away in the prison dungeon and kept there by her own will, because she can stay trapped up, in pain, or whatever.
When Grace breaks out, she accidentally sets free Vera (a fact we don't find out until later) and Vera and Ingotan team up to become this independent scary group of people who are on no one's side really.
So...what should Vera's powers be? Cuz I was originally imagining telekenesis because it'd help her function as a fighter/scary dude if she couldnt really move otherwise...but I'm sure there's something cooler we can think up
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Post by barrett on Jul 2, 2015 12:05:46 GMT -5
I was thinking life drain (or like blood magic) for my pain person (so Vera now). I mean we could go real dark and give her the power to drain someones life and then make their undead corpse her servant, that's depending on how powerful your cool with making her. Oh maybe her own wounds power her magic and then she can heal herself by draining others. I dunno needs more thought but those are my initial ideas.
Oh and design wise she should be like all scarred and shit. Maybe missing a finger.
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